Posts by Marvin Shilmer

6

REFUSING a blood transfusion because of the fear of being shunned. Any experiences?

by EdenOne in

i was wondering if someone here has a personal story, or witnessed one in first hand, when someone refused to take a blood transfusion and what role the threat of disfellowshipment and shunning played in it (versus a more genuine fear of displeasing jehovah).

.

if you do, i would like to know about it.. eden.

Marvin Shilmer

Drs Guichon and Mitchell documented an instance of this in 2009. They put it this way:

One survivor of postpartum haemorrhage without transfusion told us that her real choice was between the living death of losing her family and friends if she chose blood transfusion, or actual death caused by blood loss. The latter seemed preferable.

References here

35

2015 November 19, BOE! Circuit Account Balances!

by Atlantis in

delete if already posted.. .

2015-november 19, boe.

.. re: review of circuit account balances.

Marvin Shilmer

Wow. This is going to raise a few eyebrows!

72

CEDARS (Again) Is it really about religious beliefs?

by Listener in

jw
friends

john cedars has posted his latest blog "the trouble with apostates (and why it shouldn't put you off becoming one)".

i acknowledge that he is entitled to his opionin just as we are ours but i am disappointed in some of his comments.. at this stage i'll try to be objective about it.

he is defending his own position after all.. what bothers me most is his comments about athiests and christians which he seems to identify as being in conflict with each other.

Marvin Shilmer

Started to shared something. Changed my mind. Some things are better kept to oneself.

39

New GB video: Why Reduce the Number of Special Full-Time Servants?

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

watchtower released at tv.jw.org a new gb video with samuel f. herd, with the theme:.

why reduce the number of special full-time servants?.

it seems there is a reason to release this special message.. http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodstudio/pub-jwbrd_201511_4_video.

Marvin Shilmer

Why is he reading the whole thing?

Why?

My best guesses are, in order:

1. He's lying, or

2. He's embarrassed beyond capabilities

18

Peter Sutcliffe - I thought he was a JW now......?

by punkofnice in

http://newsthump.com/2015/12/01/yorkshire-ripper-calls-for-syria-bombing-campaign-declared-perfectly-sane/.

Marvin Shilmer

That guy is an absolute monster.

39

New GB video: Why Reduce the Number of Special Full-Time Servants?

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

watchtower released at tv.jw.org a new gb video with samuel f. herd, with the theme:.

why reduce the number of special full-time servants?.

it seems there is a reason to release this special message.. http://tv.jw.org/#en/video/vodstudio/pub-jwbrd_201511_4_video.

Marvin Shilmer

This guy never looked the camera in the lens. Even at the end!

My opinion:

If you can't look me in the eye and say it, then it's probably a big fat lie.

This guy could not even look at his audience during the perfunctory sign-off!!!

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Marvin Shilmer

Even if they changed it to say that elders should inform the parents and/or victim of their right to report the abuse, that would have a HUGE impact. This would change many JWs attitude toward reporting the crime and of those who choose to report the crime.

What you suggest is already Watchtower policy. But Watchtower needs to go further. Rather than merely pointing out that victims have a right to report the molestation, Watchtower needs to encourage victims to report the molestation. It might seem like semantics, but having this active encouragement would lend support to the victim, not to mention increasing the likelihood of protecting other children from abuse. In my opinion and experience this would, as you say, have a huge impact. I think this is probably what you meant to write.

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Marvin Shilmer

I'm not sure whether or how important it is, but there is a nagging paradox within Watchtower's response having to do with supposed rights of victims and parents.

Watchtower hangs it policy on a right held by victims and/or parents of victims whether to report child molestation to authorities:

"Jehovah’s Witnesses consider it is the right of the victim and/or the victim’s parents to report."--5.7

Accordingly Watchtower claims:

"Jehovah's Witnesses do not take it upon themselves to report [child sexual abuse] as they consider that it is the right of the victim or his/her parents to do so."--9.313 (underlining added)

Watchtower furthers the value of this underpinning by stating:

"The decision to take away that right from a victim or the parents of a child must be left to the legislatures of each State or the Federal Parliament."--5.8
"As was acknowledged in the Commission, there are times when victims may wish to have their matter dealt with confidentially within the faith. To deny them that opportunity may disempower the victims and may lead to further traumatisation."--5.11

So Watchtower argues much about the right of victims, and how to deny this may disempower a victim and lead to further trauma. So Watchtower states a position that going around this right of choice is something that must be left to the State legislature.

Here's the paradox in relation to this argument:

Watchtower policy already lets elders opt on their own to report allegations of child molestation to authorities:

"If a child is unable to report the matter to the secular authorities and the parents are unable or unwilling to do so, then an elder may feel compelled to report the matter to the authorities, particularly if he believes there is a risk to a child."--5.10
"...if any elder was to see that there was some definite risk, that their conscience would move them to do that."--9.332

So what is my point? What is the paradox?

I don't think it wrong that Watchtower policy lets elders report these allegations even when law does not require it. In fact I think that a good thing! But this aspect of Watchtower policy undermines the underlying premise of victims' rights that it attempts to leverage to justify its overall position, which is a position that falls short of encouraging victims to report to authorities.

The very "right" that Watchtower leverages as belonging to victims is a right that it admittedly takes into its own hands.

60

Watchtower's response to Royal Commission shows they have learned nothing and will do nothing

by wannaexit in

jw
friends

i've quickly read through watchtower's submission to the royal commission.

seems like they aren't planning to change policy anytime soon.

they are critical of how the royal commission handled the situation.. the tone is of the submission is shear arrogance.

Marvin Shilmer

Here's the telling thing to me. In all its many words of response, nowhere does Watchtower offer a single valid reason why as of now it has yet to publish a policy that actively encourages its followers to report allegations of child molestation to secular authorities charged to investigate and protect the greater society from such criminal behavior.

The passive policy Watchtower touts 'it is each members absolute right to report...' blah, blah, blah betrays something more sinister given the ease of an active policy that 'we encourage victims of child molestation to report their victimization to local authorities...' Neither policy would require victims (or guardians) to report to secular authorities, but the latter would offer a much greater degree of support by underpinning that a decision to report is not only a right but, more, it is a good thing to do.

But, Watchtower's hierarchy is, after all, running a business called religion, and business decisions are not expected to run parallel with moral decisions.

49

Elder's letter requesting details of solicitors, barristers and accountants

by jwfacts in

there was a letter sent to elders in australia on 18th november 2015 asking for details of publishers that are solicitors, barristers and accountants.

what would be their motive for these details?

the rest of the letter outlines 8 specific pieces of information to compile and send to bethel's legal department, and reiterates to collect the information only be "as you understand, without consulting the publisher.

Marvin Shilmer

For whatever it's worth, letters like this are not new. I recall reading the same letter back in the late 1990s. It's a recruitment tool. Legal? Yes. Creepy? Yes.

Watchtower gets these things and, if they're interested in someone they make more direct contact. Most of the time they do this through one of its traveling reps, like a CO for instance. Sometimes they arrange an coincidental meeting through a convention administrator who makes up a reason to have the individual in the convention office while a visiting bethel speaker is there. The bethel rep pretends it's a chance meeting and things go from there.